You write a blog slamming evangelical Christians, and in that blog state if you disagree with someone you should approach them individually rather than publicly as in a blog. What a obnoxious way to be. An to be a Christ followed we have to die to our sin and live for Christ. Enlarging Life ANC: Austin New Church, Hatmakers church in Austin The gospel is the gospel. Hatmaker's father was a pastor and ran a family church. May God have mercy on these trespasses and may we all look to Gospel, with its truth and hope, and follow hard after it. I couldnt take it any longer and chose to resign. I am with Mike. Get off of youre throne bro, youre clueless. Notice that disagreeing with a persons position on a theological issue isnt one of them. It will teach and encourage the practice of wisdom and holiness: finding our happiness and fulfilment is about coming to a right understanding of who we are, and what it means to be mature human being in terms of vulnerability as well as potential. Wow, thanks for that. If your deal is to call anyone with differing theological opinions a heretic Im not guessing its something I can change, but as a close friend of Jens I find a lot of this commentary nothing like the Jesus I love and serve alongside Jen. Look at this in context: Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? Does this however mean that people who are homosexual are not welcome to attend church? Well, thats logical enough. Forgive. But I know that God is on His throne and showing us the true Kingdom at hand, and it doesnt look like what we thought it would. And of COURSE he would use the same language they were using. 144 views, 5 likes, 6 loves, 13 comments, 0 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Austin New Church: ANC 02-26-2023 Sunday Live Service I mean, its like youre willfully ignoring what Jesus is saying about marriage and what Genesis is saying about marriage. By saying homosexual practice is not sin, it is a form of self-justification rather than Jesus-justification. My skepticism about wide-spread spiritual discernment amongst Church leaders ended young for me. But according to Bibles self-described marriage covenant, they are not marriage. I think everybody should be treated with love and respect at church no matter what their sexual orientation. And I think the fact that evangelicals seem to focus on one prominent dissenter at a time, making an example of that person by public mockery and critique is cruel and unbecoming. Throughout the week, our campus is alive with energy and hope. Lets focus on how the devil is using each and everyone of us in order to win good people over to his side. Someone who struggles with homosexual sin and constantly takes it to the cross of Christ, falls and gets back up seven more times is in a much better position gospel-wise than somebody who self-justifies their sin theologically. Our campus is more than just a building where we gather on Sundays. What is being said here is that for someone to say that God says that homosexuality is not a sin is in absolute and total error! The gospel of Jesus is the core of our faith. hhhmmmthat kind of thinking doesnt stand up too good. It does not hurt me or my neighbor, and I dont believe that love is a sin against God. Many are calling it out. He was talking about divorce, and the only reason he was talking about it in the first place was because the religious leaders were trying to fuck with him JUST LIKE THEY ARE DOING TO JEN HATMAKER. Ah, yes. While we certainly have what we think is an awesome "church" gathering on Sunday, it might be more accurate to describe Austin New Church as a network of faith communities. However its the false teaching she is spreading that homosexuality is not a sin which deserves sharp rebuke. JM states he was silently pro gay marriage when he was hired but kept this position hidden and claims his ability to not be cornered regarding his doctrinal views: I can do the presidential pivot. Because if it is sin, the only justification we are allowed as believers to practice is repentance and forgiveness through the cross and grace of Jesus. Do you believe in predestination, and, if not, how do you justify that? They are encouraging. And it was allowed. Repentance is a core gospel issue. However, I am 100% sure its not sin, so I feel like I am doing nothing wrong and am not presenting an affront to the gospel. just like other sins being addressed-not just that one. When someone makes a public teaching, you are free to engage with that teaching and rebut it. Lots of talk of RELIGION-not FAITH The Gospel is good news but it cuts us all of us to the core. If you dont know where get a commentary or a Bible thst has an index of where versus are. Shes a blogger. Thank you, and god bless each and Evey one of you. The greatest commandments : love God with your whole self, love your neighbour as yourself. This isnt great, Mike, and soooo important. Not to slam the person personally. It never says anything different then what he just said it does. The building was originally Faith United Methodist Church since 1968 and in January of . No opposing historical views included. It was also the official position of ANC. Austin Miniatures Western Hotel Saloon 2 story Wild West Cowboys . Over the wall you go, Rob Bell. Your response: It IS a Gospel issue! Thats harsh to say, though said in love, and that will never not be a heavy thing to hear. But if a person is a reviler someone who is rude, denigrates others, makes fun of them or tries to make them look small then we should keep away. And if you think Im exaggerating, recall John Pipers incendiary tweet Farewell, Rob Bell, written in response to Bells book Love Wins. Yes, Ryan, that is Gods plan. Winter 2016-2017: Elders who hold to the traditional view of marriage resign their position at ANC. The law is very important to them as a way to honor God, but their rabbis have debated points of the law for centuries, and they dont live in a world where the debater who turns out to be wrong has thereby denied the whole of his faith, like you seem to think Christians do. I agree with you, Mike. I understand that you think it is. I do agree with Mike, Surely, if you think a person is guilty of teaching or promoting heresy your primary motivation would be to want to correct that person and restore them to orthodox faith. The bible is our guide, our toolbox for seeking a closer walk with him. I had never thought of that. He told the prostitute to sin no more. However, we should do so with respect and love to those who are in error. If you have the right to ask me hard questions, dont I have the right to ask some of you?, Beautiful, Mike. If your motivation really is loving correction, its my view that that can only happen fully and effectively in relationship. But we should not bend Gods word with our own to meet the secular world. And trust that if we surrender to his ways and obeys him he will show us the best life, full of the great things like peace and joy and fellowship with the creator of the universe. After six years of growth, mature budget, people growing in Christ, we had three to four couples in our church create their pack, circled the wagons, and made sure that at the cost of unity in the body of Christ that they were going to exude their spiritual superiority at any cost. It doesnt mean that homosexuals shouldnt be allowed in the church however. Pretty much the same thing in Matthew. Or at least that is true for many. So happy to read that you have been able to move on to a far healthier, happier place and wish you the very best for the future. What you arent wanting to hear is a calm, sincere appeal to Biblical truths. But you miss the third part of Jesus statement regarding how to deal with the one who sins against you. Yes, an email, phone call, face-to-face communication is the first step, and inviting third parties (two or three witnesses) is the second step. They believe that in order to be saved, you have to be baptizedits a requirement. It seems to me there is room to fairly critique both speaker and listener here. http://www.sptsusa.org/not-my-kid/. And she calls herself a Christian!. And if we encourage people to treat each other as brothers and sisters- simply look at any of the latest sitcoms or a series on Amazon or Netflix brothers and sisters divide, manipulate, lie, hurt and outwit each other. . I did not come to bring peace but a sword. One isnt exposing anything hidden. Were elders allowed to fulfill their roles as decision makers for ANC as outlined in Acts 15:1-2, or were those who disagreed with the change in position asked or encouraged to leave? Jesus calls us to speak the Truth in LOVE (not in bloodthirsty fury). Sunday, May 28, 2022. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sex sins, and marries another, is guilty of sex sins in marriage. She already said 2. This teacher is teaching that homosexual sin can be justified through theological self-justification rather than through repentance and forgiveness through the cross. In-person. All of us know in our soul when somethings wrong. My only comment is that this pack attack syndrome is alive and well in the Baptist Association of NSW. I hope your waitisnt suggesting Jesus once chased people with a whip. So hopefully nobody interprets my misgivings to this article as being a religious bigot. And Im frankly sick and tired of the broken bodies and lives as a result. Those old theologians were big on grace and were vehement defenders of the idea that we acquire salvation by Gods grace alone, not by works (I agree with this). Great food for thought. The person is not called out publically, they are called in in love. Let no man divide what God has put together., 7 The proud religious law-keepers said to Jesus, Then why did the Law of Moses allow a man to divorce his wife if he put it down in writing and gave it to her? 8 Jesus said to them, Because of your hard hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives. Its tiring to read all these comments urging us to root out heresy (as if Jen Hatmaker is a heretic). Updated August 18, 2020 Huge fan of the underdog. Is BH on staff at ANC in any paid or unpaid position? A better idea is to study Mt 5-7 with a wary eye for Judaizers early edits, then read the rest as history and commentary. If you believe that, you need to reread that passage and see for what the whip was used. Cracking a loud whip has always been the most effective means of controlling the movement of large groups of animals. Its not a respectful desire to explore matters of the heart, to find common ground, or to discern a way to live respectfully with differences on non-core beliefs. Typos! It was never worth the dramaplus, there would likely always be another mom pushing a little Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle around. It was the era of the Walkman, acid wash jeans, Miami Vice, Chernobyl, and the beginning. Wilshire Baptist Church, a Dallas-area congregation, voted in 2016 to extend full membership to homosexually active people, including leadership ordination and marriage officiation. At the same time large swaths of the blogosphere blew up with the story, starting with Christian watchblogs and Christian feminist blogs and then spreading to atheist sites. Please, let me say that back to you and you tell me if thats what you said. Speaking of salvation, how does baptism fit into that? Are you saying Jesus sinned by chasing the money changers out of the temple? A Loving response: Youre right this issue is important to me, but attacking somebody is never okay, and is not Christ-like. [] (The link to the original blog is here.) BE GENEROUS. Trusting His Thoughts And if we as a group stand together and say this we are wrong? But with grace and love and patience and forbearance and all the fruit of the spirit all is the arsenal of the believer. I cant see where any belief that urges parents to throw out their kids or that causes people to commit suicide can possibly be bearing anything other than rotten fruit. Grace is just as available to her in Christ as it always was, and any believer whose heart HAS in fact been transformed by the love of Jesus and the work of Holy Spirit longs for her to be grounded in truth and to be reconciled. LehrenDotCom. Jesus didnt die for the sins of the world so we could allow people to keep sinning. Do you just ignore those verses altogether? This is a sobering appeal and I pray that yes, this discourse does save life and redeem souls from death. Mark 10:6-9 NKJV Romans 1 is very very clear. But the actual Gospel is this: That even while were sinners, Christ died for us! I hope Ive brought some clarity. Jesus didnt talk about sexually abusing children. JM: Jason Morriss, primary teaching pastor and elder at ANC, employed by the Free Methodist Church to serve at ANC since 2013, previously of Joel Osteens Lakewood Church in Houston Just playin devils advocate here a bit, but when we say Jesus didnt speak to homosexuality, are we seriously suggesting he didnt comment on sexuality itself as it stood in the Scriptural tradition? If you dont agree with it, then say so-though your wrong to disagree with it- but dont say something isnt there when it is. Specialties: Our dream is to have an increasingly positive impact on the South Austin Community. Austin Miniatures Western Church Wild West Cowboys Conte Compatible Marx TSSD. Jen follows hard after Jesus and she will be okay, no matter what lables are given and what articles are written. If outsiders hold together and build something new, it could be a good thing. About how a man and his wife, who is a man and woman, join together and become one flesh in a marriage covenant. Especially when theyre called out. But we cant go to the other extreme and do nothing about wayward leaders. Thanks for the great submission Mike. The same thing happened to Vicky Beeching, here in the U.K (although a lot of her ministry was in the states so she was battered from Im out of the loop, but it seems to me that the comments are illustrating the point of the blog. It is neither your job nor your ability to call out someone elses sin. We all should know what that really is. And in my opinion, if youre born gay, theres no greater sin than lying to yourself, pretending to be straight and failing your partner in marriage because you cannot TRULY be bonded to them. Mike Frost , the author of this article, has attested to the fact that he believes homosexual practice is sin as well. Now I know youll pull the old , Well, Im not saying itGod is!, The God who said it is not good for the man to be alone is the same God who says, through Jesus, Some were made this way and some were born this way. Maybe. And it wasnt me but Jesus who said to lust in the heart is adultery, to hate in the heart is murder. Its a difficult place to beI feel like Im losing my home. He chased people out with a whip and turned over the tables of the money changers. Matthew 10:34-39 NKJV. Im so sorry you were harassed and abused. Or the only one you care about? Self-justification in all its forms is the greatest affront to the gospel. This is the right thing according to Matthew 18, a teaching emphasized in the intentional-community churches Ive been part of since reaching adulthood but not in the evangelical ones I grew up with. Matthew 18:15 seems the answer to me. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Farewell Jen Hatmaker: the brutality of unhealthy religion, Its perfectly natural, not perfectly biblical, to desire the death penalty, A tale of two Christianities on its knees. How would you justify this to a Seventh Day Adventist person? It never has. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a mans enemies will be those of his own household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. Is she a pastor? Clearly, the time they went public it is public. What good is it?! There is a lot of 'behind-the-scenes' drama happening ahead of the 2023 Oscars as Riley Keough and Priscilla Presley are entangled in a legal battle. After working with them through many meetings, lunches, and doing everything I could for over six months, they did exactly what you said in your article, they created their posses, spread rumors about me, my wife, and undermined the leadership of my entire staff. Do you believe this, and if not how do you justify that? This is my view. Sunday, May 28, 2022 Ascension Day. In what universe is she to be held in the same standing as an ordained minister? I am ok if any of you disagree with me. Yet, I find myself sobbing in my back yard as I listen, hoping no one hears . Even if you hate me for it. Jesus speaks out harshly against causing others to stumble rather than personal sin like in your examples. Otherwise there is need for concern. MaintainingContaining What churches could learn from the Pub Choir phenomenon, Breaking Up the Family in the Pursuit of Uniformity, The Micro-Shift That Could Be a Gear Changer for Your Church, Women in Ministry Megalist - Women's Role in the Church Resources, Wise Words Wednesday: The Brutality of Unhealthy Religion | GAP COMMUNITY, Being chiefly concerned with things to avoid, Measuring quantities (of giving/serving/attending etc.). Do you know anyone whos a part of the Churches of Christ? Theres no mention of him using it to strike any animal, let alone human. People read Frank Schaffer! Jesus gives the guy a list of commands to keep, and then he tells him, If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me. (NASB) Jesus was very clearly telling the guy how to inherit eternal life. When I asked Jen if she would private message me so I could respond privately about my concerns on same sex marriage, she never did. Ahh yes. If you think the person is sinning, that is something to engage privately. Do you keep Saturdays holy? At the very least she deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. It isnt love to just not disagree with someone. 2701 S Lamar Blvd Austin, TX 78704. Im also a millenial who thinks the evangelical church has become a joke. When Jen Hatmaker wrote a raw and heartfelt blog about the pain shes been through over recent attacks and posted it on Good Friday, she was taken to task for daring to identify her pain with that of Christs. It was dying out in the early church, but still happened. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner not even to eat with such a person. 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